sigpig
On The Field
Posts: 1,627
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Post by sigpig on Feb 9, 2022 8:20:37 GMT -5
So, if we actually believe that our QBs were interchangable (walk with me here) and that Dane isn't really that much of an upgrade (hear me out)... We were an 8-6 team that didn't win the division, lost 2 starting receivers and possibly the best pass rusher in the league. We don't have a solution on the OLine, and didn't upgrade our kicker and punter situation. Honest question... How exactly am I supposed to feel good today? Lost our Centre and LT too. Just like last season. Now, Ciraco wasn't (insert ancient players' names here, but for the sake of argument, Hage) in the prime of his career (Hage stunk in his first year starting too), and he had a back injury serious enough for the team to HAVE to skirt the ratio rules (and got caught once), but he was still a National kid they drafted and developed over two seasons. Yet, they re-signed one of the WORST O-Line players in recent memory in Okafor.
From the "in/out" article on 3DN:
"Hamilton Tiger-Cats
In
DL Micah Johnson (A)
DB Richard Leonard (A)
Out
REC Jaelon Acklin (A)
RB Jackson Bennett (N)
DB Tyrice Beverette (A)
DB Delvin Breaux (A)
OL Darius Ciraco (N)
DL Ja’Gared Davis (A)
QB Jeremiah Masoli (A)
DL Lorenzo Mauldin IV (A)"
By my count, and adding in Banks, we have lost SIX starting-calibre players, two VERY capable backups, and a ST player/backup DB.
I would hate to find out that if certain players were offered the same/competing contracts and they STILL chose to move on. Sometimes a player simply wants a new place to play. Sometimes it's a better signing bonus or something. Sometimes players want to get the hell out of Dodge.
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Post by countfloyd1 on Feb 9, 2022 10:05:32 GMT -5
Micah Johnson is official
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espo
Hall of Fame Club
Posts: 725
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Post by espo on Feb 9, 2022 11:33:46 GMT -5
So, if we actually believe that our QBs were interchangable (walk with me here) and that Dane isn't really that much of an upgrade (hear me out)... We were an 8-6 team that didn't win the division, lost 2 starting receivers and possibly the best pass rusher in the league. We don't have a solution on the OLine, and didn't upgrade our kicker and punter situation. Honest question... How exactly am I supposed to feel good today? Lost our Centre and LT too. Just like last season. Now, Ciraco wasn't (insert ancient players' names here, but for the sake of argument, Hage) in the prime of his career (Hage stunk in his first year starting too), and he had a back injury serious enough for the team to HAVE to skirt the ratio rules (and got caught once), but he was still a National kid they drafted and developed over two seasons. Yet, they re-signed one of the WORST O-Line players in recent memory in Okafor.
From the "in/out" article on 3DN:
"Hamilton Tiger-Cats
In
DL Micah Johnson (A)
DB Richard Leonard (A)
Out
REC Jaelon Acklin (A)
RB Jackson Bennett (N)
DB Tyrice Beverette (A)
DB Delvin Breaux (A)
OL Darius Ciraco (N)
DL Ja’Gared Davis (A)
QB Jeremiah Masoli (A)
DL Lorenzo Mauldin IV (A)"
By my count, and adding in Banks, we have lost SIX starting-calibre players, two VERY capable backups, and a ST player/backup DB.
I would hate to find out that if certain players were offered the same/competing contracts and they STILL chose to move on. Sometimes a player simply wants a new place to play. Sometimes it's a better signing bonus or something. Sometimes players want to get the hell out of Dodge.
Okay, i had a chat with Crash about this (ish) yesterday, but the idea wasn't fully formed yet... I have an odd take on this one, so bear with me here... As much as I hate losing some (a lot) of these guys, I kinda *get* what they're going for this year... Going into last season, I was actually a bit worried they didn't actually add anyone, just roll it right back and hope aging and a 15 month layoff wouldn't affect anyone, and then Filer retired, and then Rico left, and then Levels wasn't coming in to fill in for Rico anymore, and then Breaux retired.... I was legitimately worried we were resting on our laurels and aging ourselves out of contention, esp with Speedy. (i know, i'm a effing psychic in hindsite... but legitimately...) This year, has a certain feeling like the Bellicheck mode of "i'd rather lose a guy a year too soon, than hang on a year too long" and I'm assuming the goal is remaining competitive for this year while focusing on the 2023 home GC Davis is a huge loss this year. This gives a year to find his replacement Mauldin was great in backup spots, but was still a rotation guy Acklin hurts, thought he was gonna be a lifer, don't know why, just had that feel. Masoli? Sucked to lose him for the season in 2019, but in 2022 Evans is better. Breaux? wasn't on the team, lot of people thought he lost a step in 2019. 2 full years off, maybe he comes back fresh and healthy, or maybe BC is paying for a name from the past. Beverette? Loved his play, but he was a backup and a teamer. Kalinic? loved this guy in 19, don't know why he wasn't utilized in 21. Sucks to see him go, but i'll be cheering for whatever team he ends up sticking with down south. Ciraco? thats the one that *really* hurts, local guy, just got his first year at center under his belt, signed 4 hours up the road from home. Feel like this one was Burke's biggest get. I don't super understand the Teddy signing after going out and getting Micah Johnson... but Teddy's been kind of a rotation guy for the last two seasons anyway All that said.... the secondary is essentially back, and Leonard has some familiarity with it. The linebacking corps is entirely intact and I think kelly is going to be even better this year Oline: still needs a LT, *BUT* Vornkahl looked better than Murray last year IMO, so maybe they're counting on him as a development project. REC: are mostly back with the Whites, Dunbar, and Acklin replacing RBs: Jackson with STE and Irons behind him is a lot better than how we started last year QBs: Evans > Masoli. Shiltz seems like a reliable backup, two guys underneath to develop. i'm good with it. Dline: I don't know what they're doing here, but it's gonna be angry as hell against the run. Do we find someone to groom or does Hughes come down the QEW to fill the game for a year? Kicking...... just sign Castillo already, holy eff, as much as me and the girlie like yelling out "DOMMA DOMMA DUMP TRUCK" every time the kid comes out, he doesn't have the leg I don't hate where we're at looking at it like this, we're far from the out and out favourite we were going into the last two seasons, but Ottawa wasn't going to be garbage forever, Toronto made some smart moves, and MTL is getting VA back. East is going to be a dog fight, this team *should* have enough for a home game. I just don't think it'll be the East Final. |
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Post by olemancatsfan on Feb 9, 2022 12:02:29 GMT -5
I being a fan for over almost 60years , I seen it all and this team being dismantled like this, is nothing new.
Owners don't want to over pay , which is understandable, and players want to make as much as possible before they retire. I understand that, but letting Davis walk when he is in his prime, leads me to believe that the cats aren't spending a lot of money this year , because the cup will be in Hamilton next year, and they 'll spent it then . To me thats why players went else where to play too. It is a business before its a sport. years ago it was the other way around. Jus My Opinion. cheers
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sigpig
On The Field
Posts: 1,627
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Post by sigpig on Feb 9, 2022 12:46:32 GMT -5
New ownership, new budgets.
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espo
Hall of Fame Club
Posts: 725
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Post by espo on Feb 9, 2022 13:01:44 GMT -5
I being a fan for over almost 60years , I seen it all and this team being dismantled like this, is nothing new.
Owners don't want to over pay , which is understandable, and players want to make as much as possible before they retire. I understand that, but letting Davis walk when he is in his prime, leads me to believe that the cats aren't spending a lot of money this year , because the cup will be in Hamilton next year, and they 'll spent it then . To me thats why players went else where to play too. It is a business before its a sport. years ago it was the other way around. Jus My Opinion. cheers
i don't *hate* the idea of legally overspending the cap by saving space this season to re sign guys and giving out bonuses at the end of this year. |
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Post by countfloyd1 on Feb 9, 2022 13:39:37 GMT -5
Lost our Centre and LT too. Just like last season. Now, Ciraco wasn't (insert ancient players' names here, but for the sake of argument, Hage) in the prime of his career (Hage stunk in his first year starting too), and he had a back injury serious enough for the team to HAVE to skirt the ratio rules (and got caught once), but he was still a National kid they drafted and developed over two seasons. Yet, they re-signed one of the WORST O-Line players in recent memory in Okafor.
From the "in/out" article on 3DN:
"Hamilton Tiger-Cats
In
DL Micah Johnson (A)
DB Richard Leonard (A)
Out
REC Jaelon Acklin (A)
RB Jackson Bennett (N)
DB Tyrice Beverette (A)
DB Delvin Breaux (A)
OL Darius Ciraco (N)
DL Ja’Gared Davis (A)
QB Jeremiah Masoli (A)
DL Lorenzo Mauldin IV (A)"
By my count, and adding in Banks, we have lost SIX starting-calibre players, two VERY capable backups, and a ST player/backup DB.
I would hate to find out that if certain players were offered the same/competing contracts and they STILL chose to move on. Sometimes a player simply wants a new place to play. Sometimes it's a better signing bonus or something. Sometimes players want to get the hell out of Dodge.
Okay, i had a chat with Crash about this (ish) yesterday, but the idea wasn't fully formed yet... I have an odd take on this one, so bear with me here... As much as I hate losing some (a lot) of these guys, I kinda *get* what they're going for this year... Going into last season, I was actually a bit worried they didn't actually add anyone, just roll it right back and hope aging and a 15 month layoff wouldn't affect anyone, and then Filer retired, and then Rico left, and then Levels wasn't coming in to fill in for Rico anymore, and then Breaux retired.... I was legitimately worried we were resting on our laurels and aging ourselves out of contention, esp with Speedy. (i know, i'm a effing psychic in hindsite... but legitimately...) This year, has a certain feeling like the Bellicheck mode of "i'd rather lose a guy a year too soon, than hang on a year too long" and I'm assuming the goal is remaining competitive for this year while focusing on the 2023 home GC Davis is a huge loss this year. This gives a year to find his replacement Mauldin was great in backup spots, but was still a rotation guy Acklin hurts, thought he was gonna be a lifer, don't know why, just had that feel. Masoli? Sucked to lose him for the season in 2019, but in 2022 Evans is better. Breaux? wasn't on the team, lot of people thought he lost a step in 2019. 2 full years off, maybe he comes back fresh and healthy, or maybe BC is paying for a name from the past. Beverette? Loved his play, but he was a backup and a teamer. Kalinic? loved this guy in 19, don't know why he wasn't utilized in 21. Sucks to see him go, but i'll be cheering for whatever team he ends up sticking with down south. Ciraco? thats the one that *really* hurts, local guy, just got his first year at center under his belt, signed 4 hours up the road from home. Feel like this one was Burke's biggest get. I don't super understand the Teddy signing after going out and getting Micah Johnson... but Teddy's been kind of a rotation guy for the last two seasons anyway All that said.... the secondary is essentially back, and Leonard has some familiarity with it. The linebacking corps is entirely intact and I think kelly is going to be even better this year Oline: still needs a LT, *BUT* Vornkahl looked better than Murray last year IMO, so maybe they're counting on him as a development project. REC: are mostly back with the Whites, Dunbar, and Acklin replacing RBs: Jackson with STE and Irons behind him is a lot better than how we started last year QBs: Evans > Masoli. Shiltz seems like a reliable backup, two guys underneath to develop. i'm good with it. Dline: I don't know what they're doing here, but it's gonna be angry as hell against the run. Do we find someone to groom or does Hughes come down the QEW to fill the game for a year? Kicking...... just sign Castillo already, holy eff, as much as me and the girlie like yelling out "DOMMA DOMMA DUMP TRUCK" every time the kid comes out, he doesn't have the leg I don't hate where we're at looking at it like this, we're far from the out and out favourite we were going into the last two seasons, but Ottawa wasn't going to be garbage forever, Toronto made some smart moves, and MTL is getting VA back. East is going to be a dog fight, this team *should* have enough for a home game. I just don't think it'll be the East Final. Of the players we've lost, I think the hardest to take is Acklin. I thought he'd be around for a long time. I suspect the D line is going to be a rotation, with Wynn & Teddy starting with Johnson rotating in to keep them fresh. It could be that the coaching staff saw our D get worn down too many times at the end of games including the GC & this is how they're addressing it. Back end has been re-signed, so we're fine there. Agree that they should just address the kicking already, but they may want to hold out for a Canadian there. I don't know how Whitford is still on the roster. Most of the guys we lost, ie Masoli, Breaux, Bennett, Beverette, Mauldin either weren't going to beat out incumbents or were strictly rotational. As for the O line, Gibbon at C & Woodmansey at G with Vornkahl, Rev & CVZ seems the likeliest configuration. |
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Post by countfloyd1 on Feb 9, 2022 13:41:38 GMT -5
I understand that, but letting Davis walk when he is in his prime, leads me to believe that the cats aren't spending a lot of money this year , because the cup will be in Hamilton next year, and they 'll spent it then .
What stops me from agreeing with you is they didn't do this last year. They could (and should) have loaded up for a home GC season & didn't. I think it's clear that Bob wants to win, but within the rules. |
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Post by onemoredork on Feb 9, 2022 17:19:18 GMT -5
Some good postin'
Acklin, Davis are legit difference makers. Letting them walk is inexcusable. Letting Ciraco go is baffling.
Business plan or Football plan. Difficult to believe the latter isnt getting dominated by the former and it all started last year.
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Crash
On The Field
Posts: 1,645
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Post by Crash on Feb 9, 2022 18:42:36 GMT -5
Some good postin' Acklin, Davis are legit difference makers. Letting them walk is inexcusable. Letting Ciraco go is baffling. Business plan or Football plan. Difficult to believe the latter isnt getting dominated by the former and it all started last year. It's nice to have realistic conversations without getting called names. I agree that Bob likely tries to keep everyone profitable and is the voice of reason among governors. He'd be a hypocrite if he went over the cap. It just feels like we can't have nice things. |
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Post by derkickistneingut on Feb 9, 2022 19:44:08 GMT -5
The team was all in for the 2020 season then got kicked in the nards by Covid. Seemed like the teams were running on a handshake agreement to limit cap spending in 2021 then a couple look like they went rogue. Owners likely all took a bath last year with expanded rosters, daily testing etc. So somewhat understandable that they had a tight grip on finances and maybe BY is still reeling a bit from his 2020 losses. What I didn’t understand was not bringing in basically any players for a look during the year. A kicker or offensive lineman on a rookie contract couldn’t have broken the bank. Even Castillo for four games???
We’ll see if they open the wallet a bit wider for a 2023 Cup run. With a few decent puzzle pieces we’re not far off either this year or next.
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Post by FozzieBear on Feb 9, 2022 22:09:52 GMT -5
Johnson is not signed. Awesome.
It is official now...
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Crash
On The Field
Posts: 1,645
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Post by Crash on Feb 9, 2022 22:12:34 GMT -5
The team was all in for the 2020 season then got kicked in the nards by Covid. Seemed like the teams were running on a handshake agreement to limit cap spending in 2021 then a couple look like they went rogue. Owners likely all took a bath last year with expanded rosters, daily testing etc. So somewhat understandable that they had a tight grip on finances and maybe BY is still reeling a bit from his 2020 losses. What I didn’t understand was not bringing in basically any players for a look during the year. A kicker or offensive lineman on a rookie contract couldn’t have broken the bank. Even Castillo for four games??? We’ll see if they open the wallet a bit wider for a 2023 Cup run. With a few decent puzzle pieces we’re not far off either this year or next. It was obvious this team went real tight in 2021. I couldn't even get a ticket rep to call me, ever. I don't believe this team is spending to the cap. At 90% they're saving $550k or so. Of course every other league makes these things public. |
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Post by FozzieBear on Feb 9, 2022 22:23:59 GMT -5
Some good postin' Acklin, Davis are legit difference makers. Letting them walk is inexcusable. Letting Ciraco go is baffling. Business plan or Football plan. Difficult to believe the latter isnt getting dominated by the former and it all started last year.
Agreed, out of all the players they lost Davis and Acklin for me were the worst. Maybe I am wrong but I feel that Ciraco is more replaceable then the other two.
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Post by countfloyd1 on Feb 10, 2022 5:01:45 GMT -5
Some good postin' Acklin, Davis are legit difference makers. Letting them walk is inexcusable. Letting Ciraco go is baffling. Business plan or Football plan. Difficult to believe the latter isnt getting dominated by the former and it all started last year.
Agreed, out of all the players they lost Davis and Acklin for me were the worst. Maybe I am wrong but I feel that Ciraco is more replaceable then the other two.
Agree 100%. Ciraco really struggled with the move to C, & even his last year at guard, he got blown up a few times & took some bad penalties. I really liked Davis, but over on the team board, they're talking about bringing in Charleston Hughes & Odell Willis. Both those guys are just too old. The team has brought in Tavai; if they're actually looking to bring someone else in, it would have to be Cordarro Law, at least he's "only" 33. This being said, losing Davis is hard; if we had lost Wynn, I really feel like that would have been bigger. That dude has been nothing but fantastic since he came to town. |
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