Crash
On The Field
Posts: 1,645
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Post by Crash on Sept 25, 2022 9:47:38 GMT -5
The sentiment from the Prowl over the past few years has been...
"We made the Grey Cup, you cant win them all" "We've been the best team in the East over the past 5-10 years, what else do you want?" "Our time will come, etc"
There's a happy medium between winning every Grey Cup and being 7-6, falling into the playoffs, needing a miracle to win and almost getting it.
I heard it last night.
Calgary has made the playoffs for 17 consecutive seasons.
That's it. That's what I want. Organizational stability and consistently being over .500.
They don't win every Grey Cup, they don't even get to that many more than everyone else... but they're always around and always a threat.
In the West where you have to be on your game all the time, 17 consecutive years in the playoffs.
Am I on the right track people?
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sigpig
On The Field
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Post by sigpig on Sept 25, 2022 10:51:00 GMT -5
Preaching to the choir. The nostalgia Brigade continues to reminisce about the glory days a decade before I was born. I have seen a grand total of THREE Grey Cup victories in my lifetime, and 1-year-old me didn't know a thing about the Tiger-Cats in 1972. 1986 and 1999 are the only times I have seen our team hoist the cup.
I had season seats through the extremely lean years. I attended every game with my grandmother (who grew up a fan of that team down the QEW). I was there through the entire 1-17 season, along with the other 7,000 people in attendance. And those fools DARE to accuse me of not caring or not being a "real fan".
I seriously think Pat has completely lost it. Remember Wilf? THERE was a man who did indeed live through the glory days, the Ballard and Lean years, but he certainly didn't live in the past.
Pat, however, makes a point that I made long ago, and that is that a stable ownership/front office/HC -generally- make for outstanding organizations. One only has to look at Calgary up here, and Pittsburgh and New England down there, to see what I mean.
Calgary also sets the standard for grooming and promoting their former QBs to the HC spot.
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Crash
On The Field
Posts: 1,645
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Post by Crash on Sept 25, 2022 10:51:29 GMT -5
Re: Organizational stability
Anyone can sit back from their rocking chair with pictures of John Barrow on their wall and say "Stay the course because blah blah blah" but the point is that organizations that truly stay the course don't force it.
Management know their roles and don't threaten to leave at the first sign of money. Huff/Dickenson, Walters/OShea, and yes even the mighty Pittsburgh Steelers don't throw around money and titles to unqualified football coaches in a desperate attempt to make them stay, they want to stay and know their jobs. Mike OShea is a football coach, not a President of Ops. Huff runs the show, Dickenson calls the game.
In a way I feel sorry for Stein - he was handed this bag and now there's no other way around it. He runs the entire show and we're stuck watching him learn on the job. Clearly his inexperience on offense has cost this team 2 years in a row, and Sr people like Burke, Reinebold and Barker bolted once Stein was given keys to the kingdom. It's insulting to someone like Burke who cut his teeth with this organization not to get the big job over a football coach with zero management experience. Cant blame him one bit for leaving.
I'm all for continuity - with people that have earned their positions.
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Post by countfloyd1 on Sept 25, 2022 10:52:02 GMT -5
The sentiment from the Prowl over the past few years has been... "We made the Grey Cup, you cant win them all" "We've been the best team in the East over the past 5-10 years, what else do you want?" "Our time will come, etc" There's a happy medium between winning every Grey Cup and being 7-6, falling into the playoffs, needing a miracle to win and almost getting it. I heard it last night. Calgary has made the playoffs for 17 consecutive seasons. That's it. That's what I want. Organizational stability and consistently being over .500. They don't win every Grey Cup, they don't even get to that many more than everyone else... but they're always around and always a threat. In the West where you have to be on your game all the time, 17 consecutive years in the playoffs. Am I on the right track people? Bahahahaa. "The Prowl". Officially seconding this as the term we should use for the other board. Agree with the rest of your post. We should have a team that is always in the hunt & competitive. I'm tired of the horseshit reasoning that "if nothing else, we're good if we win LD", I'm sick of "the real season starts after LD", and the "we should just be grateful we have a team" crap. These attitudes were forged in the bullshit period between 1973 & 1986 and again in the really bad days of the 90s. No one should be content with the way this franchise operates until they're able to win a championship and sustain some success consistently.
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Post by onemoredork on Sept 25, 2022 11:23:02 GMT -5
What's particularly disheartening is the template for real success on the field is clear. Putting win or die experienced football people with proven track records in positions to succeed. Took awhile for Young etc to accept this as the painful progression from Katz to Obie to Austin showed. But it appears ownership has lost its stomach for it and has settled for a kind of middle ground. Worse still it seems comfortable with the results and expect fans to do the same. Management, player personnel have cleary regressed. Stein is an average coach, Washington is just competent, Condell can be better if given broader talent to work with. In total it's a mediocre, uninspiring structure that doesn't expect or command excellence..just competitiveness. The usual suspects had a meltdown when I said the regime wasn't serious about building a GC winning team. I'm more convinced than ever and I can only imagine what new cope they've adopted.
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Post by onemoredork on Sept 25, 2022 11:33:00 GMT -5
Perception is tricky but from my experience TC fans have always been demanding. But after the franchise was an eyelash from folding twice in less than 10 years the "just be happy with what you got" settled in for too many fans and never really left. Above .700 football and GC appearances was like a novelty what should,ve been the norm.
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Post by derkickistneingut on Sept 25, 2022 19:07:29 GMT -5
Re: Organizational stability Anyone can sit back from their rocking chair with pictures of John Barrow on their wall and say "Stay the course because blah blah blah" but the point is that organizations that truly stay the course don't force it. Management know their roles and don't threaten to leave at the first sign of money. Huff/Dickenson, Walters/OShea, and yes even the mighty Pittsburgh Steelers don't throw around money and titles to unqualified football coaches in a desperate attempt to make them stay, they want to stay and know their jobs. Mike OShea is a football coach, not a President of Ops. Huff runs the show, Dickenson calls the game. In a way I feel sorry for Stein - he was handed this bag and now there's no other way around it. He runs the entire show and we're stuck watching him learn on the job. Clearly his inexperience on offense has cost this team 2 years in a row, and Sr people like Burke, Reinebold and Barker bolted once Stein was given keys to the kingdom. It's insulting to someone like Burke who cut his teeth with this organization not to get the big job over a football coach with zero management experience. Cant blame him one bit for leaving. I'm all for continuity - with people that have earned their positions. The management structure as it sits is not really much different than when they brought in Austin. He was actually head of football operations but brought in his buddy Tillman who did the real heavy lifting of finding talent. Austin wouldn’t have been able to rebuild the team the way he wanted it without that experienced player personnel guy who actually reported to him. To me things went south here when Barker left in 2021. I believe he had a larger role in bringing in talent with his extensive contacts in the U.S. and previous league experience than what was let on. Presumably the Ed Hervey hire was to take over some of the contract negotiation and talent evaluation end of things to replace Burke and / or Barker. Possibly because of his previous issues, the team doesn’t trust him to have full authority here and he’s not really able to put his stamp on the team for better or worse. And Orlondo doesn’t have enough experience to offer up a viable alternative who he can trust in. Until they find this person, or one of Hervey, Zimmerman or Allemang is able or allowed to step forward, we likely won’t see significant progress here.
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Crash
On The Field
Posts: 1,645
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Post by Crash on Sept 25, 2022 20:22:23 GMT -5
Re: Organizational stability Anyone can sit back from their rocking chair with pictures of John Barrow on their wall and say "Stay the course because blah blah blah" but the point is that organizations that truly stay the course don't force it. Management know their roles and don't threaten to leave at the first sign of money. Huff/Dickenson, Walters/OShea, and yes even the mighty Pittsburgh Steelers don't throw around money and titles to unqualified football coaches in a desperate attempt to make them stay, they want to stay and know their jobs. Mike OShea is a football coach, not a President of Ops. Huff runs the show, Dickenson calls the game. In a way I feel sorry for Stein - he was handed this bag and now there's no other way around it. He runs the entire show and we're stuck watching him learn on the job. Clearly his inexperience on offense has cost this team 2 years in a row, and Sr people like Burke, Reinebold and Barker bolted once Stein was given keys to the kingdom. It's insulting to someone like Burke who cut his teeth with this organization not to get the big job over a football coach with zero management experience. Cant blame him one bit for leaving. I'm all for continuity - with people that have earned their positions. The management structure as it sits is not really much different than when they brought in Austin. He was actually head of football operations but brought in his buddy Tillman who did the real heavy lifting of finding talent. Austin wouldn’t have been able to rebuild the team the way he wanted it without that experienced player personnel guy who actually reported to him. To me things went south here when Barker left in 2021. I believe he had a larger role in bringing in talent with his extensive contacts in the U.S. and previous league experience than what was let on. Presumably the Ed Hervey hire was to take over some of the contract negotiation and talent evaluation end of things to replace Burke and / or Barker. Possibly because of his previous issues, the team doesn’t trust him to have full authority here and he’s not really able to put his stamp on the team for better or worse. And Orlondo doesn’t have enough experience to offer up a viable alternative who he can trust in. Until they find this person, or one of Hervey, Zimmerman or Allemang is able or allowed to step forward, we likely won’t see significant progress here. Austin was under qualified as well for the VP job. I liked Austin but won't discriminate on my opinion that someone with zero personnel experience be given complete control over personnel.
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Post by derkickistneingut on Sept 25, 2022 20:51:12 GMT -5
The management structure as it sits is not really much different than when they brought in Austin. He was actually head of football operations but brought in his buddy Tillman who did the real heavy lifting of finding talent. Austin wouldn’t have been able to rebuild the team the way he wanted it without that experienced player personnel guy who actually reported to him. To me things went south here when Barker left in 2021. I believe he had a larger role in bringing in talent with his extensive contacts in the U.S. and previous league experience than what was let on. Presumably the Ed Hervey hire was to take over some of the contract negotiation and talent evaluation end of things to replace Burke and / or Barker. Possibly because of his previous issues, the team doesn’t trust him to have full authority here and he’s not really able to put his stamp on the team for better or worse. And Orlondo doesn’t have enough experience to offer up a viable alternative who he can trust in. Until they find this person, or one of Hervey, Zimmerman or Allemang is able or allowed to step forward, we likely won’t see significant progress here. Austin was under qualified as well for the VP job. I liked Austin but won't discriminate on my opinion that someone with zero personnel experience be given complete control over personnel. You’re not wrong on either point. That was likely the only way the team could offer Austin enough money to pry him away from a comfortable NCAA gig. Kent was also smart enough to know he couldn’t handle the whole gig on his own and had the luxury of working with an experienced guy like Tillman in Sask who he was able to bring in almost immediately after getting hired. Money flowed a lot freer then, in Ticat land and the CFL in general as we all know. Steinauer just doesn’t have the contacts with senior management guys at this stage. They took a stab hiring Hervey but who knows what that working relationship is like as neither one has really crossed paths before playing or coaching. Ticats likely didn’t want to start from square one with a new coaching staff after two GC appearances so sold the farm trying to keep Stein here and happy.
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Crash
On The Field
Posts: 1,645
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Post by Crash on Sept 25, 2022 20:57:14 GMT -5
Austin was under qualified as well for the VP job. I liked Austin but won't discriminate on my opinion that someone with zero personnel experience be given complete control over personnel. You’re not wrong on either point. That was likely the only way the team could offer Austin enough money to pry him away from a comfortable NCAA gig. Kent was also smart enough to know he couldn’t handle the whole gig on his own and had the luxury of working with an experienced guy like Tillman in Sask who he was able to bring in almost immediately after getting hired. Money flowed a lot freer then, in Ticat land and the CFL in general as we all know. Steinauer just doesn’t have the contacts with senior management guys at this stage. They took a stab hiring Hervey but who knows what that working relationship is like as neither one has really crossed paths before playing or coaching. Ticats likely didn’t want to start from square one with a new coaching staff after two GC appearances so sold the farm trying to keep Stein here and happy. Did the same thing with Cortez. Zero player personnel experience. We have now given 3 HEAD COACHES Personnel jobs, senior ones, with zero experience. It's insecurity, and it's obvious. The more disciplined move after last year's Grey Cup would have been to promote Burke, Barker or give the gig to a Danny Mac type individual. As much as I wasn't a fan of Marcel Desjardins at least they went down the right path with that org structure. This isnt difficult but Young and Mitchell insist on making it this way.
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Post by countfloyd1 on Sept 26, 2022 4:09:08 GMT -5
You’re not wrong on either point. That was likely the only way the team could offer Austin enough money to pry him away from a comfortable NCAA gig. Kent was also smart enough to know he couldn’t handle the whole gig on his own and had the luxury of working with an experienced guy like Tillman in Sask who he was able to bring in almost immediately after getting hired. Money flowed a lot freer then, in Ticat land and the CFL in general as we all know. Steinauer just doesn’t have the contacts with senior management guys at this stage. They took a stab hiring Hervey but who knows what that working relationship is like as neither one has really crossed paths before playing or coaching. Ticats likely didn’t want to start from square one with a new coaching staff after two GC appearances so sold the farm trying to keep Stein here and happy. Did the same thing with Cortez. Zero player personnel experience. We have now given 3 HEAD COACHES Personnel jobs, senior ones, with zero experience. It's insecurity, and it's obvious. The more disciplined move after last year's Grey Cup would have been to promote Burke, Barker or give the gig to a Danny Mac type individual. As much as I wasn't a fan of Marcel Desjardins at least they went down the right path with that org structure. This isnt difficult but Young and Mitchell insist on making it this way. Agree. I've resisted jumping on the "hate Scott Mitchell" bandwagon, but at some point, it's no different than holding Steinauer accountable for his poor personnel and coaching decisions. I like the idea of hiring Danny Mac, but I'd also be ok with Barker as the GM. There's a reason why the team sank like a stone when he & Reinebold left, and probably more than one.
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Post by onemoredork on Sept 29, 2022 11:06:22 GMT -5
Shouldn't have this been a busy by- week. Still in the hunt for playoffs with an eye on next year..you know..send a message to fans after a tough loss... something other than complete silence ?
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Post by derkickistneingut on Sept 29, 2022 12:11:21 GMT -5
Shouldn't have this been a busy by- week. Still in the hunt for playoffs with an eye on next year..you know..send a message to fans after a tough loss... something other than complete silence ? Ticats scouting staff waiting for the ArriveCan and travel restriction mandates to pass this weekend. Then they’ll go nuts and sign probably two more guys by the end of the year. There’s also good deals on different Cheetos brands at Target. For sure they’ll restock the club suites with those puppies.
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Post by mightypope on Sept 29, 2022 12:26:03 GMT -5
Shouldn't have this been a busy by- week. Still in the hunt for playoffs with an eye on next year..you know..send a message to fans after a tough loss... something other than complete silence ? I know that this is from the past but does anybody remember the guy that went by the name of Caretaker or something like that. Used to actually post video updates here and there and he even use to post his thoughts on ticats.ca. Whatever happened to that guy?
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Crash
On The Field
Posts: 1,645
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Post by Crash on Sept 29, 2022 12:36:58 GMT -5
Lighten up....the Cincinnati Bengals are having a rough start to the year.
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