Crash
On The Field
Posts: 1,645
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Post by Crash on Aug 27, 2022 14:13:43 GMT -5
TORONTO — Dane Evans was being treated for his sore-again shoulder, so didn’t have to come out of the locker-room, but he firmly insisted on talking to a couple of late-lingering media types so he could publicly acknowledge the painfully obvious.
“We’re such a good team and I keep screwing us, I totally know that, and I’m going to figure out a way to not do that,” said the distraught Hamilton Tiger-Cats’ quarterback after he had one of the Cats’ worst outings in recent years during a humiliating 37-20 loss to the Toronto Argonauts Friday night that has given Hamilton a first-class berth on a train heading apparently nowhere.
Evans served up three interceptions to Toronto cornerback Jamal Peters, one of which was returned for a game-sealing touchdown and he also fumbled the ball away early in the second quarter, and was immediately yanked from the game by head coach Orlondo Steinauer in favour of Matt Shiltz, who’d started the two previous games because of Evans’ injured throwing shoulder.
Shiltz played solidly, completing 13 of 15 passes, including one touchdown, but hurt his wrist late in the third quarter, bringing Evans, and his second and third interceptions, back into the game. If Shiltz is seriously hurt, the Ticats will be in deeper trouble than they’re already in and that trouble is pretty deep, and pretty widespread.
They crashed to 3-8, exactly the record they deserve. The Montreal Alouettes are at 4-6 with two wins in a row, and the 5-5 Argos are now four points ahead with a game in hand, control the season’s series, and clearly don’t think the Ticats don’t have the right stuff to stick with them: and they are not wrong, not based on the real evidence. The Ticats massive injury list keeps growing but their medical problems are no worse than the Argos’ crowded M.A.S.H. unit … yet it was not the Argos who barfed up the second half.
With Labour Day now a must win, it is entirely possible that the Ticats will have to go out and seek more quarterbacking help next week, depending upon Shiltz’s health and how Evans’ banged-up shoulder responds.
“If that’s a long-term deal,” Hamilton head coach Orlondo Steinauer said of Shiltz’s wrist, “Obviously we’re going to have to take a look at all options.”
Evans has now been intercepted 14 times and has lost six of his seven fumbles. The interception and fumble in the first 18 minutes both stymied promising Hamilton drives, and his final two interceptions led to Toronto touchdowns, a pick- six and a quick four-play drive by Argo quarterback McLeod Bethel-Thompson who had a strong second half after a terrible first one.
“That (loss) was 100 per cent on myself,” Evans said. “I talked to all of (the players) in the room and I talked to all the coaches. It’s not a lack of preparation … I can’t pinpoint a thing, if I could it wouldn’t be happening. It’s never happened to me before at any level of football.
“I want to face it, because I think if I face it (in public), I think I can get over it. I don’t know what it is. I have no clue, but I promise no one is going to work harder than me to get over it.”
Since quarterbacking and turnovers generally decide CFL games, Evans’ wretched evening was the critical factor. But he wasn’t the only culprit. And that too is a recurring theme.
The Ticats were up 16-10 at halftime which meant, given the repetitive nature of this season’s gloomy history, that the Argos had the Cats exactly where they wanted them.
The Ticats had 15 first downs in the first half to the Argos’ six and 236 yards in offence to Toronto’s 99, and should have been up by even more than they were. But once again, they showed the killer instinct of a confirmed pacifist, couldn’t put the Argos away and allowed a late second-quarter touchdown that gave the Argos life that they shouldn’t have had.
Toronto responded by outscoring Hamilton 27-4 in the second half and the Ticats responded by once again having no answer for the adjustments that the opposing team made at the half. The pass plays into the flats were fooling no one. Their pressure — so strong early — was suddenly being picked up, and they failed to properly identify the pressure being exerted on them. Bethel-Thompson who had
been booed in the first half cut through the Ticat defence with ridiculous ease in quickly converting opportunities into touchdowns.
This was the entire Ticat coaching staff being out-maneuvred, once again, in the second half. It is a chronic problem.
The Ticats scored only one touchdown, a tremendous second-effort by Lemar Durant after he was slammed short of the goal-line but muscled the ball in. Tim White had a Shiltz pass go through his hands in the end zone that would have built on a Ticat lead, but forced them to settle for one of Seth Small’s four field goals, which included a 58-yarder with the aid of a strong (and rare) north wind which tied the Ticats’ franchise record set by Brett Maher in October of 2016.
It was a great moment, but was lost almost immediately in the Ticats taking yet another large step toward oblivion
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Crash
On The Field
Posts: 1,645
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Post by Crash on Aug 27, 2022 14:15:16 GMT -5
From an attitude and responsibility perspective I'd rather have a QB that owns his play vs one that blames his teammates (Fajardo).
Tough times for Dane but he'll work his way through it if given the chance.
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Post by onemoredork on Aug 27, 2022 14:22:00 GMT -5
"The entire coaching staff out maneuvred..."
Almost said Steinauer but just couldnt get the words out.
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Crash
On The Field
Posts: 1,645
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Post by Crash on Aug 27, 2022 14:23:29 GMT -5
"The entire coaching staff out maneuvred..." Almost said Steinauer but just couldnt get the words out. Agreed. Hard to criticize the team when you know your access is on the line. That press box food isn't cheap |
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Post by countfloyd1 on Aug 27, 2022 15:55:53 GMT -5
Dane owning it should be a example for many other players on this team. Some of them don't deserve their game cheques.
Milton criticizing the coaching staff is a lone media voice, who'll likely be drowned out by Louie B
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Crash
On The Field
Posts: 1,645
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Post by Crash on Aug 27, 2022 16:44:46 GMT -5
From an attitude and responsibility perspective I'd rather have a QB that owns his play vs one that blames his teammates (Fajardo). Tough times for Dane but he'll work his way through it if given the chance. He won’t in Hamilton - and that’s too bad because he generally loves being there, as do we when we get a chance to come up. But with the amount of hate that he’s received in his time in Hamilton, not just this year, I’m about ready for him to move on myself. The hate you are seeing is nothing more than frustration and impatience. (Also sheer stupidity) After all in a 8/9 team league it's been a long time, and we just can't seem to get it right. If the team is just as invested in Dane as they were when he was chosen in the offseason over Masoli, then I think he'll get every chance to work it out. Edit. I should also add if your reference point for this fanbase is the CFL forums and twitter, you're looking at the lowest common denominator. |
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espo
Hall of Fame Club
Posts: 725
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Post by espo on Aug 27, 2022 21:25:46 GMT -5
He won’t in Hamilton - and that’s too bad because he generally loves being there, as do we when we get a chance to come up. But with the amount of hate that he’s received in his time in Hamilton, not just this year, I’m about ready for him to move on myself. The hate you are seeing is nothing more than frustration and impatience. (Also sheer stupidity) After all in a 8/9 team league it's been a long time, and we just can't seem to get it right. If the team is just as invested in Dane as they were when he was chosen in the offseason over Masoli, then I think he'll get every chance to work it out. Edit. I should also add if your reference point for this fanbase is the CFL forums and twitter, you're looking at the lowest common denominator. Aside from the loyal residents of Masolistan, (religious extremists, who were never reasonable, and never will be) who was throwing hate Dane's way until this week? (which in fairness, was an absolute $hit show on his part) We've waded through "the play calling is shite" "the receivers aren't good enough" "well that one hit him in the hands and gets blamed on the QB" "the Oline isn't good enough" and "Dane just needs to hold onto the ball, these fumbles have gotta be an aberration, they'll take care of themself" The interceptions have been absolutely brutal. The coaching staff doesn't seem invested in #9 at all, this feels like Macciocia like behaviour at this point. we're 3 and 7, pretty sure Ottawa is going to pass us at this point. Fans have a right to be angry. Still think Dane can turn it around, but if daddy dearest is throwing shade on forums, that's not a good sign |
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Post by derkickistneingut on Aug 27, 2022 22:47:09 GMT -5
The hate you are seeing is nothing more than frustration and impatience. (Also sheer stupidity) After all in a 8/9 team league it's been a long time, and we just can't seem to get it right. If the team is just as invested in Dane as they were when he was chosen in the offseason over Masoli, then I think he'll get every chance to work it out. Edit. I should also add if your reference point for this fanbase is the CFL forums and twitter, you're looking at the lowest common denominator. Aside from the loyal residents of Masolistan, (religious extremists, who were never reasonable, and never will be) who was throwing hate Dane's way until this week? (which in fairness, was an absolute $hit show on his part) We've waded through "the play calling is shite" "the receivers aren't good enough" "well that one hit him in the hands and gets blamed on the QB" "the Oline isn't good enough" and "Dane just needs to hold onto the ball, these fumbles have gotta be an aberration, they'll take care of themself" The interceptions have been absolutely brutal. The coaching staff doesn't seem invested in #9 at all, this feels like Macciocia like behaviour at this point. we're 3 and 7, pretty sure Ottawa is going to pass us at this point. Fans have a right to be angry. Still think Dane can turn it around, but if daddy dearest is throwing shade on forums, that's not a good sign I think he can turn things around as well, but right now he may be dealing with shoulder and/ or a rib injury. Not sure he’ll get a chance to play the next couple of games and maybe he shouldn’t. It’s great that he steps up and takes responsibility for his play but he may put too much on his shoulders and I think some of those fumbles and picks are just because he’s pressing too hard. Hopefully he can work through this. You’re right in that most have been fairly supportive of Dane , especially here. There are always a few idiots who crawl out of the woodwork after a loss and pile on, especially on the team forum. But when your best suggestion is “start Watford” that pretty much tells you all you need to know. Dane signed up for this, he’s making the big money now and the scrutiny will only get more intense. I hate to bring this up. but had that been Jeremiah last night tossing three picks and a fumble you know people would not be charitable in any way. It’s a shitty business that way, but it is pro sports. All you can do is try to block out the noise and naysayers and go to work. With Shiltz and possibly Evans out, and Newman status unknown, things are looking pretty bleak on the qb front. Not sure who’s available out there if we need to bring someone in for Labour Day on short notice. |
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Crash
On The Field
Posts: 1,645
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Post by Crash on Aug 27, 2022 23:04:30 GMT -5
Aside from the loyal residents of Masolistan, (religious extremists, who were never reasonable, and never will be) who was throwing hate Dane's way until this week? (which in fairness, was an absolute $hit show on his part) We've waded through "the play calling is shite" "the receivers aren't good enough" "well that one hit him in the hands and gets blamed on the QB" "the Oline isn't good enough" and "Dane just needs to hold onto the ball, these fumbles have gotta be an aberration, they'll take care of themself" The interceptions have been absolutely brutal. The coaching staff doesn't seem invested in #9 at all, this feels like Macciocia like behaviour at this point. we're 3 and 7, pretty sure Ottawa is going to pass us at this point. Fans have a right to be angry. Still think Dane can turn it around, but if daddy dearest is throwing shade on forums, that's not a good sign I hate to bring this up. but had that been Jeremiah last night tossing three picks and a fumble you know people would not be charitable in any way. The difference is... And I will only speak for myself, is that Jeremiah Masoli had 7 seasons worth of meaningful playing time. He left here at 33 years old. Dane is at the middle of his 3rd season of PT. There's no question in my mind that if Dane gets 4 more years of rope from this organization he will be just fine and with teams like 2019 and even 2021 he'll lead us to a championship. I believed in Jeremiah in 2017, but by 2022 enough was enough. He was given more chances than any Ticats QB in recent memory... He won exactly 1 playoff game as a starter. I have no problem giving Dane the same opportunity, he's already won more than Jeremiah did in 7 seasons. |
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Post by derkickistneingut on Aug 28, 2022 0:39:00 GMT -5
I hate to bring this up. but had that been Jeremiah last night tossing three picks and a fumble you know people would not be charitable in any way. The difference is... And I will only speak for myself, is that Jeremiah Masoli had 7 seasons worth of meaningful playing time. He left here at 33 years old. Dane is at the middle of his 3rd season of PT. There's no question in my mind that if Dane gets 4 more years of rope from this organization he will be just fine and with teams like 2019 and even 2021 he'll lead us to a championship. I believed in Jeremiah in 2017, but by 2022 enough was enough. He was given more chances than any Ticats QB in recent memory... He won exactly 1 playoff game as a starter. I have no problem giving Dane the same opportunity, he's already won more than Jeremiah did in 7 seasons. Dont get me wrong, my goal isn’t a bring back Masoli campaign. I only made that comment to illustrate that the fan base can be pretty merciless, and for the most part I agree with Espo that people have been pretty patient with Dane. Thought he had turned a corner but last night was rough. The comments you see would be no different if he was playing in any other city. Throw in 22 consecutive years of failed seasons and the fan base can be just a bit impatient. |
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Post by countfloyd1 on Aug 28, 2022 5:33:20 GMT -5
I hate to bring this up. but had that been Jeremiah last night tossing three picks and a fumble you know people would not be charitable in any way. The difference is... And I will only speak for myself, is that Jeremiah Masoli had 7 seasons worth of meaningful playing time. He left here at 33 years old. Dane is at the middle of his 3rd season of PT. There's no question in my mind that if Dane gets 4 more years of rope from this organization he will be just fine and with teams like 2019 and even 2021 he'll lead us to a championship. I believed in Jeremiah in 2017, but by 2022 enough was enough. He was given more chances than any Ticats QB in recent memory... He won exactly 1 playoff game as a starter. I have no problem giving Dane the same opportunity, he's already won more than Jeremiah did in 7 seasons. 100% this. It's baffling to me how much rope Masoli was given, and more baffling that Collaros wasn't given anywhere near that amount of time. That sure looks like a great decision now. When I read the "bring back Watford" comment over there, it made me sick. That site has become the forum equivalent of the yahoos calling in to the 5th Quarter. Evans' best ball is still ahead of him. I just hope Hamilton is going to be the beneficiary of that play. |
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coache
Fairweather Fan
Posts: 92
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Post by coache on Aug 28, 2022 7:40:52 GMT -5
The hate you are seeing is nothing more than frustration and impatience. (Also sheer stupidity) After all in a 8/9 team league it's been a long time, and we just can't seem to get it right. If the team is just as invested in Dane as they were when he was chosen in the offseason over Masoli, then I think he'll get every chance to work it out. Edit. I should also add if your reference point for this fanbase is the CFL forums and twitter, you're looking at the lowest common denominator. Aside from the loyal residents of Masolistan, (religious extremists, who were never reasonable, and never will be) who was throwing hate Dane's way until this week? (which in fairness, was an absolute $hit show on his part) We've waded through "the play calling is shite" "the receivers aren't good enough" "well that one hit him in the hands and gets blamed on the QB" "the Oline isn't good enough" and "Dane just needs to hold onto the ball, these fumbles have gotta be an aberration, they'll take care of themself" The interceptions have been absolutely brutal. The coaching staff doesn't seem invested in #9 at all, this feels like Macciocia like behaviour at this point. we're 3 and 7, pretty sure Ottawa is going to pass us at this point. Fans have a right to be angry. Still think Dane can turn it around, but if daddy dearest is throwing shade on forums, that's not a good sign He did sign up for this - that’s why, after rethinking it, I deleted my post and don’t want to bring any unnecessary scrutiny upon him. I know I should stay off forums - even this one (I don’t even go to the other one anymore), but being so far away and not having access to the articles/news/hype of the team, I’m just trying to stay connected. You know what’s woke me up - way to early - the last 2 mornings - Locked Hitches !! Locked hitches are 6 yard routes that has every receiver running 6 yards and stopping, turning his numbers to the QB and working back to the QB until you receive the ball. Dane has thrown 4 picks in 3 years on Locked Hitches (the pic 6 the other night was locked hitches). Every team, from 7th grade up - in Canadian and American football - runs hitches - starting in about 9th grade, you start teaching your QB/WRs how to “convert” hitches vs Man coverage. If it’s Man coverage and the DB is “Sitting or playing Catch Technique” (means they are playing a max depth of 7 yards - right on top of the hitch) then you convert it to a “Go/Takeoff” route. In theory, you should be able to run right by the DB who is “Sitting” on the short route. I have had great success with 14 year olds figuring this concept out (run where they ain’t). The biggest problem I’ve had with teaching this is Pre-Snap determining when they are in Man Coverage (for Jr high kids), but there is no hiding the coverage when the ball is snapped. So some time kids know before the ball is snapped that they are converting their hitch to a Go - sometimes they have to wait until after the ball is snapped (waiting until after the ball is snapped is called a route adjustment). After a few weeks of working on the recognition, they get pretty good at recognizing if the DB is playing Catch or Sit technique (you can tell by his depth, hips, eyes and leverage). I would like us to move away from Locked Hitches and just use Hitches - obviously, the difference is the term “Locked” - it’s just what it says it is, you Run the Hitch, it’s locked in, you DON’T have the option to convert or sight adjust the route - doesn’t matter what Def they are playing, YOU RUN THE HITCH!! (Now to be fair, there is a way to run a Locked Hitch, but it requires a discrepancy in route depth and the way the WR runs the route, it looks way more like a “Blockout” in basketball, whereas the WR positions his body between the QB and the DB - in American Football, these are usually run on the goalline when there is no room to run a Go/Takeoff - in Canadian Football, I don’t know that there is even a need for locking the hitch, with end zone being so deep (that would take extra study on my part). I truly believe, if 14 years olds can Convert and Adjust against coverage, that we could as well. I hope we never call another Locked Hitch - ever. This has been what’s woke me up, way to early, the last 2 days. Thanks. |
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sigpig
On The Field
Posts: 1,627
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Post by sigpig on Aug 28, 2022 8:41:27 GMT -5
coache, I made a comment in another thread saying that I believe that too many (as in: most) of the pass plays are to stationary receivers. Whey you just described nails it on the head. There was a game early in Dane's career where he tried to "lead" Banks (throw the pass so he catches it in stride) on a hitch. Speedy, after the ball fell incomplete, was pretty demonstrative in saying that he prefers to catch the ball and THEN make his break upfield. Hitches can work, as well as the various forms of screens, IF and only IF, the other players actually block the LBs/DBs in front of them. This rarely happens with this team, and I don't know the reason unless it's sheer ineptitude. Some of us on this site have played organized football, some have played other sports at a high level, and some of us have simply been watching football for decades.
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Post by derkickistneingut on Aug 28, 2022 8:46:10 GMT -5
Coach E:
Appreciate the insight and enjoy reading your comments. We’re all hoping Dane and that offence can get untracked. It’s too bad TSN colour guys can’t or won’t share some of the thoughts you just did. For all of the “it’s just a game, throwing and catching cliches” we really can’t begin to understand some of the complexities and subtleties involved especially at the pro level.
P.S. I’m sure you will sleep better tonight.
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Post by countfloyd1 on Aug 28, 2022 13:43:00 GMT -5
Coach E:
Yes!! 100%!! And this is why we want you posting more here, among other reasons.
When you consider the amount of coaching experience on the Ticats' staff, the thought that they continue to try to force this kind of thing is ridiculous.
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